Peter (host):
Michael Shermer is convinced that the use of reason the study of science and the evaluation of evidence leads people toward unbelief. For him, the only reason people believe in God or religion is because they are influenced by their peer group and the culture they are in.
Michael Shermer:
There may be good arguments you can use for why you believe but in the end, they only work if you already believe and you're looking for justification for your beliefs. So this has a lot to do with the psychology of belief, which is what I study as a psychologist and researcher, and my own example is a good one that once I left and went to graduate school where nobody believed or if they did, it was a private matter, and it wasn't really something we were doing as scientists in training. Then it didn't really matter if I believed or not, and I could clearly see the arguments were not that good. And taking courses in psychology, social psychology, anthropology, and so on, it was obvious that beliefs like religion and politics and others are very much determined by the culture you happen to have been born and raised in and who your social influencers are, rather than evidence and logic and reason like in science.
Peter (host):
Even though Michael Shermer claims that the evidence and the arguments will only convince Christians who are already believed there are actually lots of nonbelievers who have examined the evidence and found it compelling. The presentation of this evidence is often referred to as "apologetics", and as we heard in our last episode, it convinced Jordan Monge to leave atheism and put her faith in Jesus.
Jordan Monge:
As I thought about what love really was, they could see how Jesus' death on the cross was the perfect embodiment of that.
Peter (host):
Jordan was convinced of atheism from a young age. But when she got to Harvard University, she found out that they were good answers to her many objections. It took her a while, but she eventually realized that the arguments of her friend - John Porter - could not be easily dismissed.
Video Clip:
He makes a strong case. Very convincing.
Peter (host):
After Jordan spent enough time thinking about all that she learned, she decided to give her life to Jesus. Of course, I'm sure that if Shermer knew about Jordan Monge, he wouldn't be very impressed.
Video Clips:
She's young. She's confused.
Peter (host):
Yeah, that's obviously one way to dismiss her. Jordan was relatively young when she decided to believe but in this episode, we'll look at the case of a professional philosopher, who was definitely not young when he decided to reject his lifelong commitment to atheism.
Peter (host):
Antony Flew passed away in 2010, at the age of 87. But six years before he died, Flew had a major change of mind.
Video Clip:
How did that happen?
Peter (host):
Well, during the 20th century, Anthony Flew was a respected atheist philosopher. He was highly regarded, along with other great atheist philosophers like Bertrand Russell and J.L. Mackie. During the course of his career, he taught at various British universities such as Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele, and he also taught at York University in Toronto, Canada.
Video Clip:
In Canada?
Peter (host):
Yes! York University in Canada, my homeland.
Video Clip:
O Canada!
Peter (host):
Here's a clip of Flew in his younger years expressing his commitment to science and his belief in just the physical world.
Anthony Flew:
We start and stop with the universe itself, with the everyday world of common sense and common experiments. And with those hidden mechanisms of that world, which are progressively revealed by the advance of science.
Peter (host):
Flew was a committed atheist. But later in life, Flew started to have doubts. And in 2004, he shocked his colleagues and the atheist community by announcing that he had changed his mind. He was no longer an atheist.
Video Clip:
Oh my goodness!
Peter (host):
Flew explained that he had become convinced by certain classical arguments for the existence of God, and by arguments presented by the Intelligent Design community. These arguments were based on biology, and they convinced him that there was an intelligent Creator of the universe.
Peter (host):
Now, we should note that Flew did not become a Christian theist. He came to believe in something like the god of the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle. This is a more abstract view of God who is responsible for the existence of the universe and its major features but who isn't particularly concerned about the lives of us human beings.
Video Clips:
Useless humans. Humans are so boring.
Peter (host):
Nevertheless, given Flew's stature amongst atheists, his decision certainly produced waves. In fact, some people responded by saying not that he was too young, but that he was too old. This, the critics alleged was just a confused old person.
Video Clips:
A confused old person.
Peter (host):
The book he published describing his change was written with another author and the critics claimed it actually represented the view of his co-author rather than his own thoughts but Flew rejected that and insisted it accurately represented his own thoughts and ideas.
Peter (host):
In this interview, Flew was asked about what changed his mind. And he explains that he was impressed by the arguments from biology.
Interviewer:
What were some of the factors that prompted you to, in recent years, reconsider atheism and come to the conclusion that there is a Intelligence?
Anthony Flew:
It's been entirely these I suppose, biological discoveries and discoveries about chemistry so that is these things.
Interviewer:
The complexity?
Anthony Flew:
Yeah, the integrated complexity argument.
Peter (host):
Antony Flew and Jordan Monge are just two names of the many people who have changed their minds after examining the evidence, but there are many others. Some of these former atheists, agnostics, and skeptics include notable figures such as the Oxford University professor, C.S. Lewis.
C.S. Lewis:
Almost certainly, God is not in time.
Peter (host):
And Lee Strobel, a former hard-nosed journalist at the Chicago Tribune.
Lee Strobel:
And so I launched into an investigation. Using my journalism and my legal background, to try to get to the truth of Christianity.
Peter (host):
And Alister McGrath, another professor at Oxford University, has three doctorates.
Alister McGrath:
Christian faith gives us a lens, a way of looking at the world, which enables us to discern a coherent reality to make sense of it.
Peter (host):
All of these men started as agnostics or atheists, but then change their minds once they examine the evidence. And the evidence has also convinced people who belong to other religions, such as Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism. For example, Paul Williams was a Buddhist scholar who practice the religion for many years.
Paul Williams:
And so there Buddhism and Christianity have that thing in common. Both think that the truth is something which will not be appreciated by people, will not be understood.
Peter (host):
And the late Nabeel Qureshi, a former Ahmadi Muslim.
Nabeel Qureshi:
Our God who created the universe, all the stars in the sky. He just thought them into existence that God is willing to die?
Peter (host):
If you're wondering why all these people change their minds, I invite you to keep listening to LIT and to learn from all the other apologetics resources that are out there. You can find some recommended resources on the Worldview Summit website. And also just by typing "apologetics" into a search engine.
Peter (host):
Learning apologetics is not the solution to all your life's problems. It won't magically give you a close relationship with God. It won't dispel every single possible doubt. And I won't turn you into some sort of super Christian. But if you're a follower of Jesus, then apologetics is something that God can use in your life to give you a certain clarity, passion, and freedom. It can help give you deep confidence that your faith in Jesus is well placed. It can help motivate you to seek after Him with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. And it can instill a boldness in you to share your faith without fear and anxiety.
Peter (host):
Regardless of whether you're a Christian or non-Christian, if you take the time to study and learn with an open mind and an open heart, I think you'll be impressed by just how much sense it makes to follow after Jesus.
Peter (host):
In this episode, we looked at another life that ran counter to Michael Shermer's claims. Shermer said that the arguments and evidence for Christianity only convince those who already believe but Jordan Monge heard the evidence and she went from atheism to faith in Jesus and Antony Flew went from atheism to belief in a divine being. And there are many other examples like them.
Peter (host):
In our next episode, we're going to look at a different type of challenge.
Video Clips:
Okay, we're changing direction. New topic.
Peter (host):
Well, not entirely new. The thing is, some people like Michael Shermer claim that Christianity is objectively false. But other people take a more insidious approach. Instead of saying that it's false, they'll claim that it's true, but not objectively true. They'll say it's just true for you if you believe in that sort of thing. However, that's not what following Jesus is all about. Anyone who takes the time to read and understand the Bible knows that it cannot be a mere personal belief. The Bible simply does not present its claims that way. They're presented as objective truths that are either objectively true or objectively false.
Female Narrator:
You're listening to LIT by Worldview Summit with Peter Kupisz.